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Lionheart
08-03-2004, 01:58 AM
Ok, these are the basic rules and general tidbits of knowledge you NEED to know when playing challenge mode. Im gonna try to break everything up all nice and neat like.

Materials

This section is for the materials and who uses what ones, etc

Power
Hunters (start by giving to the weaker hunters i.e HUcaseals, HUmar, in stringent circumstances, you may need to favor your HUcast like in C9 for example)

Def
Generally Forces, though Hunters greatly benefit from these as well but FO is your first choice. IF given to a HU, droids are the first to receive as they actually usually have less defense and, since theyre doing more damage most likely, they are more valuable.

Evade
HUNTERS HUNTERS AND HUNTERS, i cannot stress that enough, no other class requires these at all. If no HUs are present then the FO would take it cause theyre more fragile and cant risk taking hits. HUmars are the first to receive this.

Mind
Obviously FOs, if theyre no FOs present, then the HUnewearl is your best bet (or HUmar if there are no HUn)

Luck
Hunters or Rangers, seeing as they hit with physicals constantly, Hunters are your first choice though because criticals are 1.5 times the damage and RAs never hit that hard in Cmode ever.

HP
Nearly always FOs, Rangers to. Generally never Androids though because all of them get better HP than any Human or Newman counterpart (save maybe the RAcaseal).

TP
Force, or whoever your designated magic caster is

Exceptions:

There are always exceptions to this (except for Evade, thats a constant), for example, if there are 4 HUs, its pretty much whoever gets what uses it. Never hoard in a case like that, always try to keep the party even but the rules are less strict in cases like that. Use your best judgement for your particular situation, if you have a HUmar doing more damage than the HUcast, then give the HUmar the def mat because he is more useful to the party. Common sense dictates. And dont forget, communication is essential.


General Conduct

This is how you should act before, during, and after the challenge (especially useful if youre playing with JP)

Before
Always welcome JP players with Word Select "hellos" and "Nice to meet you"/"Good to see you". JP are suckers (not in a bad way) for courtesy. Also if you know bits and pieces of Japanese, speak to them, they appreciate when you try to learn their culture. Some good phrases to say are "konnichiwa"=hello, "gomen nasai"=sorry, "Genki desu ka?"=are you well. Those three are pretty much the useful ones, if you know more japanese then obviously speak to them. Another important thing is if you have a character class join your game that you dont need in your team, ask them to leave but in a nice way, always use word select to say "sorry". Of course there are those jerks out there that get mad to you anyway but dont dignify them by yelling back.

During
If you have something you want to give to somebody else, drop it by the door to the next room. If you arent aware of that door, try to drop it near the person. If you come across a puzzle you dont know how to solve (like switches on the floor) DO NOT try to solve it, let someone who knows do it, even if it seems obvious to you, oftentimes in cmode there are many tricks and traps that damage the whole party. If you are out of scape dolls and the team really wants to try and finish, drop your stuff and disconnect, no sense screwing the whole team out of a victory just for your sake, most times theyll retry with you if youre nice enough to do that. If you have to leave for any reason during a challenge, always drop all your stuff near the closest player, it will be VERY useful to them.

After
If you and your team did well, suggest exchanging Guild Cards, most JP wont exchange unless you prove yourself as a really good player so dont bother them unless you do really well. Always say "Nice Playing with you" on word select. Again, common sense dictates, just be polite.


Classes

Of each job class, this section will tell which class is good to use in Cmode, which are not and why/why not for each

Hunters

Good to use
HUmar
Has the second best strength of the Hunters, has the capability to use magic, has adequate defense and accuracy and evasion. Good Hp, all and all, can take hits and deliver them just as well. My personal character of preference

HUcaseal
Awesome accuracy, evade, and combos for most weapons are good. Good Hp, good attack, and the use of traps is essential, especially in TA games

HUcast
Theyre iffy due to their extremely low accuracy but the highest strength and hp in the game comes in handy. Adequate defense and evade and again, the use of traps is very helpful. JP tend to use these because they know what theyre doing so i suggest you know the same before attempting this class. They are either incredibly useful or useless, and can only be that useful if you know how to use them.

Bad to use

HUnewearl
The only thing this girl has to offer in the regular game is high MST and you never reach the point of that in Cmode. Crappy accuracy, the worst attack of the hunters, low MST (not as bad as HUmar but again this is supposed to be her saving grace), overall just bad. I would suggest only using this girl after youve gotten VERY used to Cmode

Rangers

(a quick note, rangers are the worst class to use in cmode, theyre never strong enough to deal substantial damage and none of them have good MST, this applies to all of them so dont use a RA until you are very experienced with Cmode. A positive side note though, due to them being distant from enemies mostly, their lack of good stats is not generally an issue other the fact theyre taking up the spot of somebody who couldve been more useful. You cannot rely on the distance thing though as there are many enemies how have ranged attacks.)

Good to use

RAmar
Probably the best choice of the RAs. He gets the second best strength (albeit, not very good) and the most accuracy of any class in the game. He can cast magic (though it sucks), and his defense/evade is at par. His HP is ok...

RAcaseal
Pretty much the second worst of the Rangers BUT, her ability to see and shoot traps from the start is a must sometimes. None of her stats are particularly any good but as i said, then tends to be the case with Rangers in general.

Bad to Use

RAcast
Grant it hes the strongest RA but hes got the worst accuracy of them and whats the point of having a RA that cant hit stuff lol. As i just stated, he has pretty good strength, his hp is above average and his defense is ok.

RAmarl
The WORST class to use ever. I dont just mean of the RAs, i mean PERIOD. This girl has nothing to offer a team except being cannon fodder. Her hp, strength, defense, and evade all suck, her accuracy and mst dont get even adequate until the later levels.


Forces

(a side note, no Force is really good or bad to use as they each have certain situations they can be useful in, hence, i will only put the Pros and Cons of each. Also, this is a given but, since they are fragile you have to be careful and if youre gonna be a FO you have to know that many of the big monsters will be handled by you so know ALL of your elemental weaknesses to each monster.)

FOmar
Starting with Challenge 2 i believe (in ep1) and Challenge 1 (ep2), the FOmar (and all forces) starts with Shifta and Deband. Seeing as this is his speciality, it is useful. However, his Hp, def, strength, and mst are very low. He actually has the worst MST of the Forces.

FOmarl
Not very useful to use in cmode because she only gets boost on Deband and Grants(you dont even see that until like challenge 9 and its only level1). Take her if shes the Force that joins your team but not as a first choice because shes not very good in the stats department (on level with the FOmar)

FOnewm
Pretty ok to use starting in C5(ep1) and C3(ep2) when you start getting Mid level and High Level techs, which are his speciality. Pretty ok strength (for a FO anyway) and the second best mst of the Forces. So overall he is a good choice for beginners at Forces.

Fonewearl
The most fragile but most effective as a force because she gets basic techs boosts (which you always have) and the highest MST. Most JP play as FOnewearl which should tell you that you have to know what youre doing to be one. They can be very useful if used right.

Important note to all Forces:

TP conservation, something i learned from being a FO four times through cmode. It is essential that you know the placement of all the health rings and time your level ups to come right around when you run out of tp. Also (this applies especially to TA games), die for TP if you are nowhere near leveling or a health ring and out of fluids. Obviously this is a last resort even in TA games but its an expert technique and if used right (and if the other teammates are good enough to survive without their doll) it is the only way to get TA level times because the Forces can constantly blast magic at stuff. Only use Fluids when you have no TP. No exceptions to this. No point wasting them if youre about to level or there is a health ring around a corner that you forgot about.

Any other things i forgot to put in ill edit in later. Hope this helps.*

decswxaqz
08-03-2004, 04:10 AM
Hurah! My prayers have been answered. I was going to do a C-mode FAQ a while ago but I never got round to doing it. Do you mind if we sticky this? I'll have a read through and see if I can add anything :).

EDIT: All seems pretty good. Well done :).

Other Japanese phrases

Greetings - Konnichiwa is good. It shows that you at least know some of their language. But if you work out the time there (+8 or 9 hours from GMT time), and use the appropiate greeting, then you will get bonus politeness points :p.

"ohayoo gozaimasu" - Good morning
"konbanwa" - Good evening.
"oyasumi nasai" - Good night, when you leave a game/lobby.

Help - Don't be afraid to ask for help.

"xxx, kudasai" - xxx please. (mates, mats). You can usually put the item in english and they will understand. If they don't understand "mat" (most should) use material.

Misc

"arigato" - Thank you (add gozaimasu to the end to make it more polite. Not good for typing during battle though)
"yu" - Probably not the best way to describe it.... and if you are playing with c-mode experts then it's useless. I've heard it used to describe the heal rings.


Lion. If you want it stickying, could you maybe add formatting to it, so it's not just one long post. Good work again :)

Lionheart
08-03-2004, 04:54 AM
Go ahead and use it but im wondering, what do you want me to fix about it. OH and by the way, thanks for the Japanese phrases. Isnt good morning ohayou? whatever, it matters not.

decswxaqz
08-03-2004, 12:27 PM
Yes. That's how you write/type it in hiragana, but for some reason I think in romanji, you write it o but with an accent. I couldn't be bothered to find the accent though from my character map.

Example

Materials

This section is for the materials and who uses what ones, etc

Power
Hunters (start by giving to the weaker hunters i.e HUcaseals, HUmar, in stringent circumstances, you may need to favor your HUcast like in C9 for example)

Def
Generally Forces, though Hunters greatly benefit from these as well but FO is your first choice. IF given to a HU, droids are the first to receive as they actually usually have less defense and, since theyre doing more damage most likely, they are more valuable.

Lionheart
08-03-2004, 10:33 PM
ok i know im stupid but i dont know how to edit the titles of sections to have underlines and color etc, i know it says right on the top but whenever i tried it, IE popped up saying to type in the text and nothing ever worked lol. Maybe its because im on a MAC right now and im normally on Windows...

decswxaqz
08-03-2004, 10:45 PM
Click EDIT on the first post and copy this into the post. Being on a mac shouldn't matter.

Materials

This section is for the materials and who uses what ones, etc

Power
Hunters (start by giving to the weaker hunters i.e HUcaseals, HUmar, in stringent circumstances, you may need to favor your HUcast like in C9 for example)

Def
Generally Forces, though Hunters greatly benefit from these as well but FO is your first choice. IF given to a HU, droids are the first to receive as they actually usually have less defense and, since theyre doing more damage most likely, they are more valuable.

Lionheart
08-03-2004, 10:52 PM
ummm that turned out bad, hold on i gotta fix that.

Ton
09-03-2004, 02:02 AM
wow, a great guide. because of that, i might want to take a stab at c mode.

Lionheart
09-03-2004, 02:12 AM
alright dec (or other mods) its ready to be stickied.

decswxaqz
09-03-2004, 02:13 PM
Thanks.

*Stickied*

Note to people. Please only post if you want to question or add anything to the sticky.

Lionheart
09-03-2004, 09:13 PM
just gotta make sure the people know about and read this. I can easily write guides for each challenge but i cant do the GIF maps for the stages. I may get started on it.

GOLDIE
09-03-2004, 09:29 PM
Hey, if you know a bit of HTML you could write it up into a guide and ask someone to submit it to the challenge section of the guides database. If not you could do it in word and ask a staff member to write it up in HTML for you and submit it under your name. Ace work by the way, keep it up ;) .

Lionheart
09-03-2004, 09:59 PM
oh submitting guides was never the issue, you or one of the mods could easily place it in the Cmode section if i post a guide anywhere so thats not a problem. Ill probably refresh myself with EP1 cmode (as i havent played thru it since the end of summer).

decswxaqz
09-03-2004, 11:57 PM
Episode 2 c-mode is fine too :).

Lionheart
10-03-2004, 01:04 AM
yeah ive got an expert guide for ep2 C3 but the others i need to play more.

Duo
10-03-2004, 02:44 AM
Could anyone tell me how to say "I am american"? I can't for the life of me remember what it is -_-UU. I think it's a bit better if you tell them you're an english speaking player outright, and probably a little more respectable if you tell them it in their own language showing them you made the attempt

decswxaqz
10-03-2004, 10:39 AM
watashi wa amerikaajin desu

Might be better to use boku instead of watashi if you are male. For English igirisuujin.

Not sure on the spellings of the countries....

Lionheart
11-03-2004, 02:59 AM
yeah and "eigo ga dekimasu ka?" is "do you speak english?", most do to a degree (i was recently complimented by a JP player on my Japanese, yay! :P )
ive been trying to learn more and more (anime teaches A LOT lol).

Duo
11-03-2004, 04:13 AM
I think the person appreciated i at least tried to learn japanese. I have those two set as a preset for before a match, so they know.

Omar
28-04-2004, 03:54 PM
Whilst this guide is very good for the general rules/etiquette of cmode, I think your character choices are way off.

Droids are the most useful class for cmode for both HU and RA for the simple fact that they have traps. Traps are the most useful tools for cmode (apart from on bosses obviously).

RAcast and RAcaseal are the best choice amongst the RAs because of the obvious advantage of traps over the weak techs that the human RAs can use. RAcast has the highest HP of the Ranger class, so bosses are easier on mates than as any of the other RAs. You mention RAcaseal not having any particularly good stats, when that is not the case. RAcaseals are useful for their ability to take physical attacks better than any of the other RAs (they have the highest DFP).

HUcast and HUcaseal are far more useful for Cmode than a HUmar due to their aforementioned trap vision and ability to use traps. The reason the HUcast is the most commonly used cmode class is because they are the most effective! (highest HP and ATP). It is better for a newbie to cmode to use the most powerful characters as they will have less blows to land before the enemy snuffs it. Any Hunter requires skills to be learnt to play them properly. The most important thing for people to learn is to only do 2 hit combos on most of the enemies (apart from in Mines). This allows people who aren't familiar with attack delaying to solo an enemy without getting hit too often.

If you head over to Alcyone 6 (the main Japanese challenge block) you will see that their is a droid majority. This is because most of the people there are TAers (time attackers) and the fastest way through cmode is with droids and a FO of some kind.

Lionheart
28-04-2004, 10:50 PM
ummm dude i said that...ive said just that many time: Traps are essential and the JP prefer HUct HUcl and FOnl. go read my TA guide, you obviously didnt already.

Omar
28-04-2004, 10:55 PM
Then why do you advise people who are new to challenge mode to use more difficult classes than is needed? I was just basing my comment on what you have written in this and as it is a sole sticky, I assumed it would be standalone? :S

[Edit: Having just read your TA guide, I see that you know what I posted above, but still can't see why you would suggest the more difficult classes to newbie cmode players...]

Lionheart
28-04-2004, 11:00 PM
Rangers suck, do you ever see a JP TAing with one?? No you dont. Other than that, im suggesting the use of HUct, HUcl, and FOnl. All i do is bring up the good points of the others, ive never suggested them...

EDIT: in regards to the noobs starting off, they still shouldnt use RAs as they are the most difficult to use (ive done 2 of them), they lack in everything and unless they get a dim weapon, they just waste space as they cant kill anything. Their spot would be better filled with a HU/FO.

Omar
28-04-2004, 11:12 PM
I aren't referring to your TA guide here. This is for discussion of your "introduction to cmode".

You seem to be avoiding my question about why it is you suggest for example, a HUmar over a HUcast even though it is much easier to play as a HUcast in cmode.

If a newbie were tagging along with cmode vets, then a RA would be a good idea so they can stay out of harms way. I didn't mention RAs being used for TAing, so aren't sure why you brought that up :S

Lionheart
28-04-2004, 11:18 PM
ive never suggested the use of a HUmar over a HUct, i simply said ive opted for that. Never said "follow my example". And if you noticed the threads name its "etitquite" in other words, how you should act. This isnt a guide on how to play cmode necessarily. As far as RAs, i agree they help stay outta harms way, however, no team of vets is gonna want a RA because chances are theyre goin for a good time. Also, there are plenty of times where a RA has no room to run away and shoot, its close quarters and in those instances, the RAs are screwed unless theyre in the hands of an expert cmode player.

Omar
28-04-2004, 11:24 PM
ive never suggested the use of a HUmar over a HUct, i simply said ive opted for that. Never said "follow my example". And if you noticed the threads name its "etitquite" in other words, how you should act. This isnt a guide on how to play cmode necessarily. As far as RAs, i agree they help stay outta harms way, however, no team of vets is gonna want a RA because chances are theyre goin for a good time. Also, there are plenty of times where a RA has no room to run away and shoot, its close quarters and in those instances, the RAs are screwed unless theyre in the hands of an expert cmode player.
That is true, but I was talking about friendly vets who are helping the person through cmode. I know my clan would rather help people who don't try meleeing the enemies.

Oh, I assumed they were in some order. In that case, I apologise, but still have a problem with your description of the RAcaseal and HUcast.

HUcast
Theyre iffy due to their extremely low accuracy but the highest strength and hp in the game comes in handy. Adequate defense and evade and again, the use of traps is very helpful. JP tend to use these because they know what theyre doing so i suggest you know the same before attempting this class.
You seem to be saying that HUcast is best advised for people who know how to use them, whereas your description of the HUmar is much more positive, yet as we just agreed, the HUcast is an easy class to play as! :S

Hrith
29-04-2004, 12:52 AM
ive never suggested the use of a HUmar over a HUct, i simply said ive opted for that. Never said "follow my example". And if you noticed the threads name its "etitquite" in other words, how you should act. This isnt a guide on how to play cmode necessarily. As far as RAs, i agree they help stay outta harms way, however, no team of vets is gonna want a RA because chances are theyre goin for a good time. Also, there are plenty of times where a RA has no room to run away and shoot, its close quarters and in those instances, the RAs are screwed unless theyre in the hands of an expert cmode player.
RAs can be deadly, especially in Ep2 C-mode, with good specials on their weapons.
I once found a Shadow Lockgun with 60% hit in C7, I was a God with my RAcast, every monster dying in one 'special-special-special' combo.
And in Ep2C5, a friend of mine had a Devils's Railgun with his RAcaseal, halving HP of all mini-bosses definitely made the run easier, especially since the boss of Ep2C5, Epsilon, is not immune to Devil's :P

A perfect C-mode team will alway be:
HUcast
HUcaseal
RAcast/caseal
FOmarl

Non-droids besides FO are a worse option, not necessarily bad, but worse nonetheless.
And also, you need a RA in case of a map where you find lotsa RA only stuff, missing the opportunity to use a Devil's Railgun in Ep2C5 is a major waste.

Lionheart
29-04-2004, 02:55 AM
well omar were reaching a concensus however the HUct is meant for better because, like all droids, if youre a noob, youll get hit too much and waste mates. Kefka, as i said, RAs are only good with Dim type weapons (however i did overlook shadow type weaps thanks for that) however you cannot rely on that alone because sometimes you never even find a weapon with that special on it (oftentimes i dont but that could just be me). And also as i said, any class can be useful in the hands of an expert (like me or omar or possibly yourself) however this guide (in junction with my TA guide) is for the noobs at this site and they wont know what theyre doing yet. However, some classes are still always more helpful than others and RAs are always not as useful as others. You were also wrong about the perfect team, especially in TA games more FOs are better to have and you only need 1 or 2 droids per team max (otherwise, traps are just wasted). having a HUm or a Newm is good because you can learn resta (after the FO has it of course) and that can save the FOs tp (as well as mates in the earlier C's). This guide was also written with Ep1 cmode in mind, not so much ep2 (though many of the rules still apply).

Melfi
29-04-2004, 03:15 AM
Man, chill out. Lion's not tryin to be a pushover or nothin, just making suggetions. He's just saying you should use whatever you're good with. Don't freak out on 'im.

Lionheart
29-04-2004, 03:19 AM
thanks melfi, appreciate the support. Oh and kefka unless you were making a Squall reference, call me by my name, its lionheart, not leonhart. I hope i dont have to spell that out again...

Hrith
29-04-2004, 04:25 AM
well omar were reaching a concensus however the HUct is meant for better because, like all droids, if youre a noob, youll get hit too much and waste mates. Kefka, as i said, RAs are only good with Dim type weapons (however i did overlook shadow type weaps thanks for that) however you cannot rely on that alone because sometimes you never even find a weapon with that special on it (oftentimes i dont but that could just be me). And also as i said, any class can be useful in the hands of an expert (like me or omar or possibly yourself) however this guide (in junction with my TA guide) is for the noobs at this site and they wont know what theyre doing yet. However, some classes are still always more helpful than others and RAs are always not as useful as others. You were also wrong about the perfect team, especially in TA games more FOs are better to have and you only need 1 or 2 droids per team max (otherwise, traps are just wasted). having a HUm or a Newm is good because you can learn resta (after the FO has it of course) and that can save the FOs tp (as well as mates in the earlier C's). This guide was also written with Ep1 cmode in mind, not so much ep2 (though many of the rules still apply).
Two FOs in a C-mode team, that's one of the funniest thing I have read lately.
And especially since this is meant to help newbies.
Just go there: planetdreamcast.com/psoworld/viewforum.php?forum=17&4084
and try to explain to the C-mode experts there that three droids is a bad idea or that two FOs can be good, I'm looking forward to it, really.

I tell you clearly, it's easy, if you are new to C-mode, there are three things to know:
1) pick a droid, any is fine
2) do not attempt Episode 2
3) learn the maps

and you NEED a Ranger, because your team needs to be able to equip all possible weapons, although the Ranger is supposed to know about Damage Cancel, especially in Episode 2 or against bosses.

And about Ep2 C-mode : cannot see traps ? go home (except FO, obviously).

decswxaqz
29-04-2004, 12:34 PM
Come on people. I don't want to have to close it due to flaming.

Everyone has their own opinions and preferences to how c-mode should be played, and this change again depending on the map.

Forest levels (IMHO) don't need a ranger. Of course they are handy for keeping Hildebears busy but still, it doesn't really need one. I'd prefer the typical 3 HUs, 1 FO.
Caves can be useful. Some traps and keeping Dragons and Assassins away. Although Rangers attacking the Dragons whilst they are in the air (on my side, maybe they landed due to lag on yours) and won't let them down so fighters can attack does get annoying :@.
Mines they are pretty much necessary. Bringing Canadines and such like down. I'd try and replace one for the boss though maye *-)
Ruins.... lots of traps but again, I'd like to have another HU or FO.

On the aspect of droids. I find them handy. Traps certainly are useful for the large enemies. But you can't underestimate a human/newearl. The ability to have a second mage can be highly useful. You have a spare store of TP if the mage is having to conserve theirs. You can't argue that a second (part-time I might add) force in Caves killing Pan Arms and Dragons is very handy.

I'd have to go either way on the issue of 2 forces. I can understand it, but if you don't get lucky on some maps, you'll be two party members down if you don't find TP and there are only a limited number of dolls to share between you. Even though you said two forces for C2 somewhere (I think, sorry if you didn't), I'd have to disagree because it's so long. Never tried it so it could work :)
Of course, I've never tried TA, just normal c-mode. But I've done it a few times to know what I'm talking about :P

Let's not flame(bait) people.

Omar
29-04-2004, 07:19 PM
How are you defining flames decs? I have yet to see any direct flames or flamebait :S

So far kef and myself have given the more widely held views by cmode veterans in an attempt at getting the official cmode newbie topic here to be as helpful/accurate as possible.

Hrith
29-04-2004, 07:30 PM
You do know I mean no disrespect, decswxaqz, but people like me, Jazhara, VulpesMundi, Auracom and Rena-ko have spent a lot of TIME writing accurate C-mode guides.

C-mode is not a matter of opinion, there are facts.
Sure you can get an S-Rank with any team, but we were discussing TA.

I'm not flaming Lionheart, let alone flamebaiting, but he is spreading inaccurate info over your site, and I cannot stand that.

His opinion is sure welcome, but there are facts to PSO, and I will gladly help anyone who requires my help.

I am not trying to bring flames or anything to your site, I am just bringing accurate information.

Lionheart
29-04-2004, 10:18 PM
im not spreading inaccurate info, ive been playing cmode with JP for almost a year. YOU are the one who obviously knows nothing of TA otherwise youd know the best TA team for c2 is 4 FOs (ask ANY JP and being as they are the experts, you cant trust any other opinions). If youre so good, whats your srank time? If its better than mine, ill actually put some weight in your opinions. If not then obviously i know better and my info will be held true. Any JP will tell you FOs are the most useful class for any TA game and that RAs are next to useless. Decs is right though, in a noob game in the mines, they can be useful (though a FOs zonde will bring them down as well as doing insane amounts of damage). Kefka is right decs, Cmode is facts and seeing as ive been playing with the experts at playing the best for a long time now, i think i know just a little more than kefka. Oh and i continually bring up TA because thats the elite, you start off playing cmode to get ready for TA so TA teams are what you base your noob team on (in some instances, obviously not the 4FOs team of c2) because thats the best team to get a good time and even if youre not good yet, youll get through the easiest and fastest with that team (unless its a special circumstance like the 4FOs of c2 that i mentioned before).

Hrith
30-04-2004, 12:18 AM
My best time is 3'44 with my HUcast, but on Dreamcast which was a lot more difficult than NGC.

And I have always played with JP players (Miranda 11 on DC, Alcyone 06 on NGC) and I now know why they resent "E" players so much, because of arrogant western players who know so little about the game.

Bring a HUnewearl/RAmar/RAmarl to C-mode TA team and I can assure you people will shun you.
Hit the same monster that another player is hitting in a TA team, and I can assure you players will shun you, or even d/c during the game, especially if you are a Ranger.

So few people know of damage cancel, and I do think it is the main reason why so many JP players avoid us.

4 FOs for Ep1C2 ? that is true, but I got an excellent time with a 3HU/1FO team, I think it was 19 minutes, but my DC is in France, and I cannot check for sure.
But you would need to get an excellent map (which includes lotsa fluids) and 4 excellent players, then yeah 4 FO might do an excellent job since they can take out monsters the fastest in c2/c3/c4 (except boss).

And one more thing, it is a lot more difficult to find a good FO for C-mode than a good HU/RA, I'd rather take the odds at finding a weapon with excellent % or special instead, especially on NGC, where they are so common and useful.

But I do insist that newbies are way better off with a HUcaseal or a RAcast, by far the 2 easiest chars to take thru C-mode, Ep1 and 2 alike.

Lionheart
30-04-2004, 01:09 AM
whoa the first post that you didnt immediately attack me, i must say im impressed, now that were being civilized...3'44, not bad not bad, not outside of my bounds but as of now i havent attained it so ill admit your skill. However you are by no stretch of the imagination more knowledgable than me just because of that. All the stuff you said the JP would shun you for i wholeheartedly agree with (ive even said some of them myself). Most JP know me now and id even go so far as to say they semi-respect me because i DO know the damage cancel and delay attack/lag combo (whatever you wanna call it), and ive warned against attacking the same monster as it wastes manpower. Ive intentionally learned a good bit of japanese just so i could speak to the JP in their language to show i actually respect them/their culture enough to try and learn to communicate with them. In any case, probably nobody at this site will ever bother to attain our level of cmode playing so the noob guide is of more importance.

Orphen
30-04-2004, 02:58 PM
Sorry, but what is TA?

Lionheart
30-04-2004, 03:36 PM
Time Attack.

Orphen
30-04-2004, 03:59 PM
Time Attack.

Yeah, I just realized that as soon as I posted. XD

Lionheart
30-04-2004, 11:27 PM
lol good job *salutes*.

Faulkie
04-05-2004, 10:44 PM
I'm mega new at c-mode... oh well.

Judgment
04-05-2004, 10:52 PM
I'm mega new at c-mode... oh well.
me 2 i know nothing about it. xcept ou get a s rank at the end of it

Faulkie
04-05-2004, 11:03 PM
we should get good together! Now we need someone to help us... LIONHEART!

Lionheart
04-05-2004, 11:51 PM
What?? Im always offering to help, you guys need to set up the time/place, its not my responsibility to do that much lol.

Faulkie
05-05-2004, 04:29 PM
I'm asking for help now, it's not urgent but if we're both online and you're not doing anything, could you help me again?

Lionheart
05-05-2004, 10:27 PM
yeah i dont mind, did we finish C2? i cant remember, i remember attempting it with you but i cant remember what happened lol.

Faulkie
05-05-2004, 10:30 PM
I don't think we did...

Lionheart
05-05-2004, 10:32 PM
well C2 is the worst of C2-C4 (the caves challenges) because your the lowest level in that one of all of them, but its still easy enough.

Faulkie
05-05-2004, 10:34 PM
Well good (although the C2-C4 thing confuses me :P)

Lionheart
05-05-2004, 10:43 PM
C2, C3, and C4 are all Caves challenges, C2 is caves 1, C3 is caves 2 and C4 is caves 3/boss. C2 is the hardest of them all because you start with the worst weapon of the 3 challenges and the lowest level of the 3 challenges (because its the first one you do).

Faulkie
05-05-2004, 10:47 PM
And C1 is just the whole forest?

Orphen
06-05-2004, 04:09 PM
And C1 is just the whole forest?

Yeah, its extremely easy. When I am not really trying, I usuall beat it in like 12 minutes, I think I can cut my time down to 8, though.

Lionheart
06-05-2004, 09:15 PM
yeah thats exactly what i said, 12 minutes is average, and 8 or less is TA time.

Hrith
07-05-2004, 05:27 AM
7 or less :cool:

Lionheart
08-05-2004, 03:35 AM
no 7 or less is genkai TA. Im not gonna even write a guide for that...im not worthy of THAT yet. None of us here are...

Hrith
08-05-2004, 07:17 AM
I never achieved such a time, but I once did C1 with a JP player with a 6"59 time, a thing you cannot forget.

Faulkie
08-05-2004, 09:14 AM
ooooooooh, pretty time :P

Lionheart
09-05-2004, 08:50 AM
ive seen 6:30, its ridiculous

decswxaqz
20-05-2004, 10:34 PM
http://www.ragol.co.uk/guides/EplVpluFZEqPSCHHxI.shtml

Thanks to Lee-Yoshi for making it a guide. I'll unsticky this and let it fall down. I've added a link to your guide in the main information sticky in this forum

Lionheart
20-05-2004, 10:46 PM
ok cool, go in there now Decs were both on!